Stay Modern With Murray
Welcome to the Stay Modern with Murray Podcast, your go-to source for the latest trends and insider tips in the homebuilding industry. Each episode, we delve into the dynamic realms of design and construction, providing valuable insights that can elevate your understanding and approach to building and renovating homes.
But we don’t stop there! We go beyond mere construction topics to engage with influential figures such as business owners, CEOs, entrepreneurs, and community leaders. These conversations highlight the experiences and expertise of those who are making significant impacts in their respective fields. Here, you will discover not only innovative ideas and practices within homebuilding but also inspirational stories that showcase leadership and creativity in action.
Whether you're a homeowner, a potential builder, or simply interested in the housing industry, our podcast will offer a wealth of knowledge and inspiration. Join us as we explore the intersection of home construction and the vibrant discussions that can help shape the future of your projects. Tune in to enrich your understanding and spark new ideas in homebuilding, design, and business leadership!
Please tune in to hear from industry experts, non-profits, and local business leaders shaping our world. Visit our website at www.murraycustomhomes.com/podcast for more information and to catch the latest episodes. Subscribe today and stay modern with Murray!
Stay Modern With Murray
The Secret Life of an Insurance Agent
Ben Vetter of Marsh McLennan Insurance Agency shares his journey from advertising to insurance sales and his insights on building a successful career in the insurance industry. His transition story demonstrates how the insurance industry offers surprising benefits, including financial flexibility, work-life balance, and long-term job security that many professionals seek.
• Building a book of business takes persistence – Ben maintains both client folders and prospect folders, with the latter being much larger
• The "paradox of sales" means prospecting is the most critical activity, but also the easiest to push aside
• Insurance sales success requires mental resilience to handle rejection and maintain consistent effort
• The dramatic rise in homeowners and auto insurance rates stems from increased property values, construction costs, and weather events nationwide
• Distracted driving (primarily from phone use) is significantly driving up auto insurance claims and premiums
• For career seekers, insurance offers three key advantages: money flexibility, time flexibility, and job security
• Work-life balance in sales requires finding unconventional times to work, often late at night after family obligations
• Managing emerging producers involves helping them navigate their first 3-4 years until they reach "validation" (profitability)
If you're looking to connect with Ben or learn more about insurance opportunities, reach out to Marsh McLennan Agency.
Welcome to another episode of Stay Modern with Murray, brought to you by Murray Custom Homes, where we build your dream home together. Now sit back, buckle up and enjoy the ride with your host, Matt Murray. Thank you for joining us on this long-awaited episode of Stay Modern with Murray. Today, we have a very special guest, Ben Vetter of Marsh McLennan Insurance Agency. Ben, thank you for joining us.
Speaker 2:Yeah, thanks, Matt. I appreciate you. Having me on this will actually be probably a huge surprise, but my first podcast I've ever done and people have told me for years I have a face for podcasts.
Speaker 1:Ditto. You know, I was just talking, we were just mentioning it before we went on air. I think this is my first podcast for three or four months and my second one in like a year. It's just our schedules have just been so crazy that Matthew was filling in for me for a while and then Kevin and Megan, and so it's good to be back on the air here. Yeah, it's quite the undertaking, yeah, but thank you for joining us. Usually I try to do a lot of research and gain information about your story before, but with this one I was just saying let's just wing it. I know we were talking a little bit about the ins and the outs of your agency and what you do and everything, and I was like you know what, let's just wait and put it all on air. So kind of just, let's just dive in. Let's dive in about you first and then we'll. We'll go into the more company aspect, but tell us about yourself, your background, et cetera.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, I'm a native Nebraskan, grew up in well, born in Lincoln, but grew up in Aurora, nebraska, which is about an hour west of Lincoln, went to University of Nebraska Lincoln, was a advertising major when I was there and after graduation, moved to Phoenix, Arizona, lived there for a couple of years and got engaged to my wife, yep, and we moved to Kansas City, lived there for 12 years. How'd you like Phoenix? You know, loved Phoenix, and at the time we were there just kind of post-college, it was an absolute blast. I think in the two years we were there we went to Vegas like four times. In the two years we were there we went to Vegas like four times, sedona a number of times and just had a ton of fun.
Speaker 2:The problem was is that getting back to Nebraska cost money and you just had this feeling of missing out because family would have some events, of birthdays, you know, holidays you couldn't make it back, for friends are getting married. There's just so much that you're missing out on. And so we hit a point again after we got engaged. We're like, all right, we need to get back closer to home, and my wife said, okay, well, I'm going to, I'll start looking for apartments in Omaha and I'm like, hold up, not ready to go back to Nebraska quite yet. I just feel like we need to get closer so we're accessible. And we kind of settled on Kansas City. We of course had some friends who had moved there as well, but and this was early days of utilizing the internet At the time there were apartment finder kind of websites, yeah and so found one that we thought was probably in a decent, safe part of town Without ever seeing it, rented it and drove back halfway across the country and, yeah, then had a great life in Kansas City and loved it there. That's awesome I got.
Speaker 2:I ended up getting a master, an MBA, from University of Missouri, kansas City. Oh, wow, so I'm a Roo if there's any Roos, any Roo alumni who listen to this, but what's Roo? So they're the kangaroos. Okay, university of Missouri, kansas City, kangaroos. Gotcha, what years were you at the university? So 94 to 98. Okay, you're just a little bit before me. Yeah, yeah, yeah, we talk all the time how we kind of got lucky on the period of time for the football team. Oh, yeah, 94 to 98 was kind of the heyday.
Speaker 1:So I didn't really follow Nebraska much before I came here to wrestle and I came here in like 01, 02. And that was right when the team I think we fired you know, so that you're whatever back then. Yeah, I was like 10 and two, this is a hell of a year and everybody else is saying this is a shitty year. And then we all know what happened after that.
Speaker 2:So we do, and it's funny how your perception changes, where I remember that time period and we were just, you know, beside ourselves when the team would lose one, two, three games or whatever in a year, Cause we had lived through those times when that was just a such a rarity and God would I love to get back to back to those winning ways.
Speaker 1:Did you go to a lot of games when you were at the university?
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, we went to all the home ones. Yeah, we'd go down and go to the Kansas game when Nebraska played Kansas down there. I've done that.
Speaker 1:Sit in the student section. Yeah, oh God, that was so much fun. That was my fondest memories of being at the university because we get free tickets as wrestlers and just sit in the student section with all your friends and student body and other athletes. It was wild, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, no better time. And it's funny because you'll see, and you'll see kind of internet chat room stuff where people will complain about the student section in today's game. Kids don't care anymore and they're. Look at the top of the student section it's empty. And I'm like I was there during the best times. I would assume that people could argue that. But in great times and that's also how the student section looked Everyone would pile down to the bottom as close as they could. And if you had partaken in a little too much alcohol prior to the game or if you were just feeling crowded or whatever, you could go sit up at the top and it was wide open up there. But I think people look for things to call out on there. But I still anytime someone will bring that up like students today don't care, I'm like students are the same, we just don't have a bubble.
Speaker 1:We just all congregate into one little area. That's how we did. Yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 2:One row would be on the cement and then the next one would be on the bleacher, and then so you double up and turn. Yeah, you didn't have your own little space.
Speaker 1:No, no.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we were all crammed down there, but yeah, those were great times yeah.
Speaker 1:So then you made it back to Lincoln Omaha.
Speaker 2:Yes, yeah, so about so 2012,. We decided to move back. We had two boys when we were living in Kansas city and it was kind of a all right, are we done, are we not? It had been kind of a five-year break and we kind of agreed like we're both down for having another kid, but if we do, we need some more support, and neither one of us have necessarily parents who are those. You know they're going to watch your kids every day or anything. But if we ever had something wonky, go on. It's nice to have kind of family around.
Speaker 2:So we put our house up for sale when my wife was pregnant with our third and then I took a job that would transition me up there. So, essentially, took a job in Omaha, but they let me work in Kansas City for three days of the week and then I'd go up there every single week oh, that's awesome. A couple of days, and so, anyway, ended up finding a nice house that worked out in Gretna. It was hell, but got our house sold in Kansas City and then, yeah, so we've been essentially in Gretna ever since 2012.
Speaker 1:2012, so 13, 14 years, huh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so then. So we're up here, we have our third, had our daughter, and I wasn't super excited about what I was doing at the time. Yep, I wasn't in insurance, I didn't, I could barely spell insurance. Probably at the time I start poking around for jobs and I'm interviewing around for kind of director of marketing type roles, which is kind of the path that I had and nothing was feeling right and I just kind of thought, all right, you know, I've got some good experience. I've got kind of the education boxes checked, like what if I step back and say what's out there, like what could I do? And kind of check some boxes that I had as to what I wanted you know my career to look like, and so kind of stepped back, poked around, look like, and so kind of stepped back, poked around.
Speaker 2:And my wife's uncle his name is Randy Eichmeier, he was with an insurance agency called Innspro and again, I had my personal insurance through him. I just assumed that he had things covered and figured out, but I also knew that you know, he's a successful guy and and then the other part of it is like he had flexibility and and then the other part of it is like he had flexibility. Like he, his son, played division one college basketball for Colorado State and I don't think Randy and and Shelly missed one of his games. That's awesome, do. But can we grab a beer or something and just talk through what an insurance agency does, right? And so we met LBs in Waterloo and he's kind of like you know, what do you want, what do you want to do?
Speaker 2:And I said I've really kind of thought of three things that I want. Like number one, money flexibility. Right, like I want I'm a hard worker and the harder I work I want to be compensated for that. And I don't and no offense to anyone who kind of who works, you know, kind of your eight to five salary kind of jobs, but I want there to be more than hoping for a 3% salary increase every year. And so money flexibility.
Speaker 2:And then I'm like time flexibility. I've never had a job where if I had my kid had a doctor's appointment, I couldn't say, hey, can I have an hour off? I'm going to take my kid to the doctor, sure, but I also don't want to ask anyone that, right, I want to set my own time, set my own course, work when I need to, and I don't want to miss things that are important to me and my family and my kids, but I also like that's not saying I don't want to work, I just want some flexibility there, right? And the third one was job security. And I said you know, I'm in kind of a marketing advertising world and you know at the time I'm late thirties, mid to late thirties and the way things go there, like I don't want to get laid off when I'm 50, 55 or something, and then I can't find another comparable job because no one wants an old guy telling them what to do and creative kind of marketing stuff, and so those were my three things.
Speaker 2:And so Randy came back and he said you know what? I'll tell you what. So the role that we're kind of thinking of here, which would be a sales role with our insurance agency. Money flexibility, ultimate money flexibility you can make as much as you want, the more you sell. We eat what we kill. That kind of sales deal Uh, time flexibility completely yours. You.
Speaker 2:You know there's no one watching you, there's no one telling you where to go, what to do. Uh, you're going to. If you're going to do this, right, you're going to be working more than 40 hours a week, but you can. You'll never miss one of your kids events that you don't want to miss and one of your kids events that you don't want to miss. And then job security. He's like look, people work in insurance as long as they want, and if you have a book of business that you've built up, then people can stay on, you know, as long as they want.
Speaker 2:And and I actually I feel like I think back to that conversation and there's actually kind of another level to that job security thing, and this goes for any type of sales that you're talking about, whether it's mortgages, roofs, whatever it is I tell and I manage a number of salespeople and I tell them that if you learn how to sell insurance, if you are good at insurance, you know insurance and you have a track record of being able to sell it, you can go to any corner of the United States or probably the world and there is someone who wants you to help them sell insurance. Right, you could go anywhere and get a job. It doesn't seem like a skill, but it is very much a skill where, if I moved to you know, gig Harbor, washington there's an agency in there that would love to have someone walk in and say I've built up a book of business before. I understand no insurance. Do you want me to work for you? And they'd take you in a second.
Speaker 2:So I think job security wise and again, like I say, that goes for any kind of sales job. I mean, that's such an integral part for companies that, whether you have a full staff or not, people are looking for someone who can sell and that's how they generate revenue. Yep, and so knowing that's a huge key, so anyway, I.
Speaker 1:It's funny you mentioned that because I was just telling you about my brother writing the book, about my dad, yeah, and everybody asked what my dad did. Well, he was an entrepreneur. He just did a million different things. But the thing that we always say about my dad is you could sell a ketchup popsicle to a girl in a white dress, you know, or an ice cream cone to a Eskimo. He just was a salesperson through and through, yep. Everything he did, from buying vehicles to selling lawn care, to everything he was just a true salesman. He could sell himself, sell his people, and that's what made him successful.
Speaker 2:Yeah, Well, it's a. I mean, that in itself is a is a huge benefit, obviously in the role and I, you know, sales is. You know, a lot of people think of it as a numbers game, right, Well, you reach out to enough people or you do this or that, Yep, but there's that kind of sales person like that's built into good salespeople. I feel like, yeah, absolutely, and it can't be taught, Yep, you know, and you know it'd be like wrestling, right, Like if I took one of my kids and you know 18 hours a day.
Speaker 2:we're working on wrestling skills or whatever. They're never going to be good as you would have been Right. Just because you had a natural, there was a natural, yeah you're right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we can hone the skills, but it's hard to make somebody a salesman that's not a salesman. So tell me a little bit about. He was asking me earlier and I wanted to wait to ask these questions until we got on the air. So you're with InSpro, right? Yep? Who's a Marsh McLennan agency, right? Correct? So kind of explain that dynamic and who does what and how that all works.
Speaker 2:Yep. So when I took the job then back in 2014, it was Innspro and the agency had about 120 people, offices in Omaha, lincoln, des Moines, west Point, wahoo and Fremont and so very much obviously Nebraska, a little bit of Iowa. So then right about five years ago, kind of heart of COVID times, our agency was purchased or acquired by Marsh McLennan Agency and McLennan Agency is a part of the largest insurance agency in the world, okay, and so it's got kind of various forms like for big, for very large organizations. You know, google, Facebook. I mean we insure Amazon, we insure companies like that through a kind of our Marsh division. And then Marsh McLennan agency is really the middle market insurance agency so we sell so business insurance, employee health and benefits, life insurance, personal insurance, so really anything kind of insurance related, Hole-in-one insurance.
Speaker 2:Hole-in-one insurance. I think that's one I got to check. That's one I need to check on. I believe that we can sell hole-in-one insurance.
Speaker 1:For that golf tournament we have coming up I say just let it fly.
Speaker 2:Yeah, who's really going to put my house on it? I'm going to be in that golf tournament, I don't feel like you need to worry. Yeah, yeah. So but my area of specialization is business insurance. I do some personal insurance, usually for kind of clients and people who need some help with it, but for the most part I'm working with businesses on their property insurance, general liability, workers' compensation, auto, that type of stuff, awesome. But back to then the Innspro Marshall Clinton Agency. So we're technically owned by Marshall Clinton Agency, but our portion we still go by Innspro. We kind of go by both things. We'll probably potentially drop the Innspro name at some point down the line, but then we kind of the mothership is Marsh McLennan Agency and we still kind of get some guidance and direction there. But for the most part we're fairly autonomous. We just kind of use them for a lot of the resources that they have and can offer Okay, so there's kind of your parent company for sure.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's awesome. Well, what, what do you? What exactly do you do? What's your role? I know you kind of told me, sales, sales manager.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, so for sure. And insurance wise and I'm not a fan of the, the, the term or whatever, but producer would be my, my title or what all of our salespeople are I, which I again, I don't like that because I think that makes it sound like we're we're just out producing, selling constantly, and then I. The great thing about insurance sales is the residual compensation that you get off off a book of business, so as when I sell or I get a new client as a business, that's still my responsibility throughout the time that we're insuring them.
Speaker 1:Like us? Yeah, like I'm a pain in the ass. Ask questions all the time, right, just you know.
Speaker 2:And various companies are more needy than others. Yep, job kind of evolves from more 100% every day out beating the streets looking for new opportunities to managing a book and utilizing your book and relationships and there to kind of get opportunities to keep growing your book. So I for sure still do that. And then secondarily I kind of call my second full-time job is on the sales management side. So my title on that is emerging producer sales leader. So we have right now right around 40 total folks that are out selling between business insurance, employee health and benefits, and then we have a bond salesperson and that's all out of the Omaha office. Nope, that's scattered throughout Des Moines, Omaha, lincoln, we've got a guy in Fremont, we've got a couple of guys actually out in Kearney, so they're kind of spread all out but a total of 40 salespeople.
Speaker 2:And then I'm charged with overseeing the emerging producers or the newer people to the role, and normally that's people who in their first four years of selling, who are really kind of in the Green, yeah yeah, and everyone comes from a different background and perspective. So some come with insurance sales experience and some come like I did not even knowing how to sell or spell insurance. So there's. They come from all sides, so it's kind of a each person's their own unique kind of challenge and getting them up to speed and without saying names are getting too personal.
Speaker 1:Would you prefer somebody that came with industry knowledge and had the background in insurance? Or would you prefer someone that came with a clean slate, with sales experience but not in the industry? So they're a clean slate and can do it your way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, Great question. So I I, what I normally say is there's kind of three things that make someone good, kind of a good prospect. And number one obviously having, yeah, insurance experience, and that doesn't have to be sales, that can be they worked on the carrier side or they worked, they worked for State Farm and now they're coming into more of an independent agency like ours. Whatever it is kind of having that knowledge. Number two is is sales experience. So yeah, you didn't, you know, we have one guy who's just doing an amazing job and sold roll-off dumpsters and so he was B2B sales. He was in a very sales-focused kind of role but not in insurance, so had that sales one.
Speaker 2:And the third one is more just, you know network or life experience or whatever. It is Someone who they may not have done necessarily sales. Necessarily they may. You know, obviously not the insurance experience, but they know people in town, they know who to talk to, They've built relationships, they have good relationships and someone like that who we can train, kind of train on the other, those other parts and then and then harness their right their network and relationships and that gives them a head start.
Speaker 2:what I'll say is, if you don't have any of those three, it's a little rough, it's tough and we are at a point where that it we would have trouble bringing someone like that on just because there's so many other people that kind of uh fit profile Right. But I'll tell you, I was that person who didn't have any of those.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I had no and a lot of the people that I hired yeah have been.
Speaker 1:I wouldn't say the majority, let's just leave it at 50-50. But 50% of the time I'm pleasantly surprised and excited when they come in with a blank slate, right. I'm pleasantly surprised and excited when they come in with a blank slate, right. Yeah, some of our best performers in our company are the people that came in with a blank slate. Yeah, I was in the custom home world and roofing world. Just the people that are eager to learn and have that knowledge of sales and are ready to throw themselves at it. I love that. But then the other people that come in that do have industry knowledge, it's awesome because they just hit the ground running.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but then the other people that come in that do have industry knowledge, it's awesome because they just hit the ground running, but sometimes they just bring a lot of bad habits For sure, and you have to kind of retrain them and that's tough to do and they think they know how this is how it should be done and so, yeah, it brings along its own challenges. I mean, it's very rare that you have someone who can truly hit the ground running.
Speaker 1:Yep, and you know, I just kind of thought of this I haven't really spoke about it, but it kind of feels like the longer we do this right.
Speaker 1:So we go through these trials and tribulations and you know we do stuff wrong and then we correct it. We, you know we move the needle a little bit. We've tried a lot of stuff, and you kind of hone in on your company's expertise in your lane and when somebody else comes in you you like to say like we're open-minded. You know we're used to say I'm a young company, but you know I've been in business for quite a while now and but we are open-minded, like if you have suggestions, we'll take them, we'll try it. But when these people come in from these other companies that that haven't been around as long as us, it's kind of hard because they mention something to you and they want you to do it, but it's already been done before and we know that it doesn't work. And so it's kind of hard to balance that act of acknowledging their recommendations and their suggestions and taking them to heart and then also kind of being like, yeah, but your idea has already been tried, right. Yeah, but yeah, it's kind of tough to balance that.
Speaker 2:And you can tell people that and they're going to say, yeah, but I still do a little different. And so in many ways, you have to let people kind of figure that out on their own and then they'll come back six months later and be like you know how? You told me that that wasn't probably the best approach, but that's all part of it. I mean, what they're learning in finding out what doesn't work is what's going to help them down the line Absolutely, and in your sales type roles that you have and the ones that we have, no one does it exactly the same. I mean, I wish it was a deal where I could, you know, put together a manual and say you do this, this, this and this and this exact order. And you will be at this point at this time.
Speaker 2:You know, and and every sale is different. Every, every salesperson is different. They've got their own ways of doing things and skills and better at one thing than the other, and every book of business is different. So you almost have to just kind of step back a little bit and make sure that they're working hard, make sure they're doing what they need to do. They're learning, they're constantly learning, but let their book evolve, yep, but I still. I always tell people. It's like you come in here, you take guidance from us, you put your head down and you work harder than everybody else and in five years you will pop your head up and you'll look around and you'll say, goddamn, I've got a great book of business, I'm making more money than I ever thought and I love what I do.
Speaker 1:That's awesome.
Speaker 2:And it's hard for people when you're one year, two year in it is, you're exactly right.
Speaker 1:And it's so hard to even though you say that at the beginning, what you just said, and you said it perfectly. It's so hard to keep that mentality fresh with them Because you know, I tell them it's like blackjack you go on, runs right, exactly. You're going to go through a period where you just can't hit, you can't win at all for the life of you. You get an 11 versus six and you just bust. You know, john's a perfect example. Like he's like dude, even though I know you told me that like I lost six contracts this week by a combination of like $300 total. Like they didn't call me back, they didn't give me a chance, and then the next week he got six contracts from like a year ago that he didn't even know was on his radar. And I dude, it's just. You just stick with it. Like you said, keep your head down, stick with it.
Speaker 1:Build your book of business Because in the roofing industry it's the same right. You build your book of business and then, unfortunately, you hope a hailstorm comes along and then your book of business, you've treated well, you've got referrals from. They call Yep, and then they refer all their friends. So it's kind of. We have a brand ambassador. That's the same way. Keep your head down, don't get frustrated. You're going to get told, no a lot, it'll, it'll pop. And so it's just so hard to because you know I don't have the time. You know I'm really good at keeping them on track and giving these speeches, but I don't have time to meet with every one of them. You know, every week or every month, to to give these speeches and pull them out of the slumps when they're in slumps, you know yeah, but yeah, so I mean what I always will.
Speaker 2:I'll do. Someone will come in and they're they're on a bad stretch, right, they had had a few deals that they thought they were doing the put it on the Money in the bank, money in the bank, the mental ledger of what money they were going to make and whatever.
Speaker 2:And then, for whatever reason, it doesn't hit and I'll kind of bring them in my office and we'll kind of talk through it. And I'm like I want you to take a look at something. So, office, and we'll kind of talk through it. And I'm like I want you to take a look at something. So I'll flip my monitor around and I'll click open my clients folder and so for every one of my clients I have a folder in the clients folder, right. And so I go and I scroll down it and I've been doing this a long time. So I've got a lot of folders in there. And I say you see that this is my clients folder. You know how you end up in the client's folder, what you insure them. I'm like, yeah, that's right. See, I've got a lot and it took me all these years to do that. And they're like, wow, great, good for you.
Speaker 2:And then I'm like I want to show you another folder. And I click open my prospects folder and I say you know what? And they're like the ones you didn't get. I'm like, yeah, I open a folder for everyone, but if they don't get drugged to the client's folder. I didn't win that business. And I start scrolling down my prospects folder and I'm like every one of these is one that I worked on and did not win.
Speaker 2:And my point is is that, in order to have a client's folder that looks like my client's folder, you're going to have a prospects folder that looks like my prospects folder, clients folder. You're going to have a prospects folder that looks like my prospects folder. So you're, you're just adding to the prospects folder. But that is a part of the process. That's good. You know, no one, no one, hits nine out of 10. And if you, if you are, you're not, you're probably not casting a wide enough net or whatever. It is Right. So so it's, I mean it's, and you have to have people who have that, that mental ability to not get. You know, not let the highs, get too high on the highs and too low on the lows, and just keep again, keep your head down and keep charging.
Speaker 1:Every no means something. It's like throwing. My dad always told me it's like throwing darts at the dartboard. Every time you get a no it's getting you a little closer to the bullseye. Yeah, it's so true. Every time you get told no, I have to keep telling these guys like, why did you get told no? Like, call the person back and offer them a gift card. They're your best resource. Call them and say hey, listen, I want to give you a $50 gift card if you can give me some feedback on why we lost the job. Was it something I did? Was it our price? Was it our reputation? Was it our warranty? You know all the things and then take that information and correct it for the next one.
Speaker 2:Yeah, understand it. Yeah, yeah, make, yeah, learn from literally everything you do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so many people just get upset about it and they're like, oh, screw that one, move on to the next one.
Speaker 2:But it's. But yeah, there's so much learning. There may be more learning that comes out of not winning something. And then you go back and you happy with their current agent and they told you that, whatever, it is right and you should have said you know what it doesn't sound like, this is the time. But if any of that changes, come back to me. But for young salespeople and for experienced salespeople, they get a sniff at an opportunity and they're going to say, no, give me a chance, you know, or I'm going to say something that's going to turn the tide, but then you lose one and you look back and you're like, ah yeah, shouldn't have done that.
Speaker 1:So we left on. So your second full-time job, yeah, so you managed the emerging Yep, and so did you say you have 15 of those.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, right about 15. And then and we kind of have so there's a calculus in the insurance world Maybe that's the case with other kind of sales jobs where you validate essentially, once you're bringing in more money than you're costing the company to have you on board, essentially right. So, and that normally takes good salespeople, you know, three to four years. I have a couple that are pushing two years because they're just good doing an awesome job, gangbusters. Years because they're just good doing an awesome job, gangbusters. And then at that point we have an overall VP of executive, vice president of sales or whatever Tyler Teese is his name, and then he kind of takes over from there. But it should be a little less, not as much of a high touch kind of situation, kind of salesman.
Speaker 1:So you're at the beginning. You wean them and get them up to the point of not that equilibrium, of making enough money to where they're not costing the company money. So you have them on salary until that point. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:So there is a and we do it different now with with Marsh McLennan. Before we would just you'd make it, you'd take a draw and you would go in the hole and then you would dig yourself out of it, and that was- 100% commission, basically whole and then you would dig yourself out of it, and that was 100% commission, basically, essentially.
Speaker 2:Yeah yeah, we start folks off with a salary and then there are step downs each year, gotcha. So your commission should replace your lost and it should replace in, more ideally, the step downs that you're taking. So, and then. But after you're that validation period, obviously the salary goes away and you're 100% commission, then your book of business should be paying.
Speaker 1:So what's your day-to-day look like when you say it's your second job? So you have your full-time job of manning your book of business, and then you have your full-time job of being needed by all these other emerging producers. What's that job look like? What's your day-to-day look like for that?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so I mean it is, and I know you're the same way, but every day is different and so every day consists of moving renewals along. So in having renewal meetings I meet with all, with every client of mine, at least the one time in a year, a couple months before their renewal, hopefully hitting them a few times before that at different kind of opportunities. So it's spinning that plate right, getting all your renewals done. And then on the sales management side we have, I mean, I have quarterly meetings with all my folks. We have a monthly Zoom call and we have other events throughout the year. We have a big validation celebration when anyone validates, and I'm also doing, and then I also have a one-on-one meeting with everybody once a month. So there's kind of that in the sales training and kind of growth side. But then on a daily basis I'm talking to multiple of them just kind of all right, they're running into something. How do I get past this? What do I do? How do I navigate this? You're their 800 hotline For sure, myself I mean, and we got a bunch of great people. So they'll come to me, but they'll also come to other folks, other salespeople, but Tyler and myself are kind of the ones, of course, who kind of get compensated for that role, so for sure. So people will regularly be reaching out.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, the day is packed full with all of that and you'd say that, well, you're missing one important thing that should be a part of any salesperson's job and that would be prospecting. Right, if you have time, yeah, and so. Yeah, it's funny how I mean again, as I, as my book's grown, that's become kind of less necessary. But I think this is the case not only for myself but every salesperson, whether it's whatever you're selling, and for sure for people in insurance sales. And I call it kind of the paradox of sales that you, the most important thing that you could be doing, that any of us could be doing in sales, is prospecting, trying to bring in more business.
Speaker 2:Right, the paradox is that's the easiest thing to push aside. Right, it's the easiest thing to say, yeah, well, but I've got to answer these emails. Or, oh, I'm going to meet with this center of influence person. Or, oh, I should be doing X, y or Z, or I got to go do stuff for my kids, or whatever it is. For whatever reason, the prospecting ends up being the one because it's easiest to push side because there's no, there's no real deadline on it. I mean, there is, if you have sales goals, obviously, but but there's no, no real deadline. So you find that it's the easiest one to push your side, but but that's what we're paid to do, that's what the company wants us to be out doing is that, and so so it's. It's. It's always a challenge, but but especially when I kind of added that sales management component into it, it leaves less time.
Speaker 1:I was going to say that, yeah, yeah, I have zero time for that, right, right, I totally get it. So with the insurance industry, we all know, all the listeners know with the pain of renewing their homeowner's insurance shit. I went through that a month ago with. I reached out to you because I was like holy cow, my homeowner's insurance went up 38% in one year, just with all the claims from the storms and the coast and stuff like that. How is that affecting your industry and your business? I know we went through that a month or two ago just with our builder's risk insurance them taking away, you know, like soft metal damage, raising our hell claim and stuff like that. So what, what do you see in there and how do you see this evolving over the next few years?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so for sure, and you're a hundred percent right. The and and insurance has it's been around a long time and so there it goes through kind of different, kind of different phases, right, and it's been what's called a hard market here recently, essentially harder to find coverage for things, and a big part of that is the weather and everyone see, that's what I say. Like everyone feels that because everyone who owns a home has homeowner's insurance, right, and people will come to me and they'll be like what the hell is going on? I look back, like five years ago I was paying $2,000 a year for my homeowner's insurance.
Speaker 2:Now I'm paying like $4,200 is what my renewal is. This is bullshit. What's going on? They're screwing me. And I say, all right, okay, let's take a look at this. First off, what was your house worth five years ago? Right, and? And I'll be like, ah yeah, you know, it was probably like three, three, 50 is probably whatever. And I'll be like, what's your house worth now? And I'm like, oh geez, I feel like the assessor just came by and whatever.
Speaker 1:It's 500.
Speaker 2:I'm like okay, so. So let's factor that in, right, like, the insurance company has more exposure. There is more there that they're insuring and you've benefited from that too. You have benefited in the equity in your home being so much more because you've grown with that right, so that's part of it. For sure is that stuff is more and really insurance is not assessed value, it's not a sale price, it's cost of construction, right, and you may well know and understand this, that construction costs have gone up over the years A little bit. Right, so that's part of it.
Speaker 2:But then the other part is, yeah, the weather that we've been experiencing and people will be like I'm in Omaha, nebraska, I'm in Lincoln, nebraska, how do fires in Maui? Why would that affect me? How do half of Los Angeles bring down? How does a hurricane in Florida? Why, why the hell would that bother me? And it's a little kind of insurance nerdy, nuts and bolts kind of stuff. But but every insurance company including, I mean, I don't know, I guess maybe everyone but any that I know of they have to buy insurance for big events, right, they say, well, we can handle a hurricane, but we're maxed out at 500 million, so they buy insurance for the next 500 million or whatever, and that's called the reinsurance market and that reinsurance market of course sells to all the insurance companies that we all use. Well, that reinsurance marketplace has been taxed so much lately because of fires all over and hurricanes and tornadoes and whatever else happens. It's just the frequency has gone up in those.
Speaker 2:And so what do they do? I mean, again, they're there to make money, just like all the other insurance companies are. So they raise premiums on the insurance carriers and they raise deductibles on the insurance carriers. And so what do our insurance carriers do? They raise premiums, they raise deductibles, and so all of that goes into that, to that increase. And so I'll tell people who come to me about their homeowner's insurance what's your home value? 500,000. What are you paying? About $4,000. You're probably in a good place, even though it feels like it's going up, and it is going up. You're still. There's still a good place for you to be price-wise and they can check things. We have markets for personal insurance too, but everyone's experiencing, I guess, is my point. Yeah, and then sticking on personal insurance, I know I've talked to you about this over time, but auto insurance also has gone up, kind of for the same reason that the homeowners has gone up, because people come to me and like, hey, I'm paying, like you know, $5,000 a year in my auto insurance.
Speaker 2:I was never paying that much before. Well, what were you driving five years ago, right? Well, I was driving an F-150. What was that thing worth? Like $20,000. Well, what's that thing sitting out there? Now? That was like $80,000, right, so just understand. There's probably more exposure there. But also in today's world, people are getting into more accidents than they ever have, and again I've oh yeah, us Well.
Speaker 1:Yeah, right In the last two weeks, yeah right, but what's causing it right?
Speaker 2:So why are people getting in more accidents? Have I asked you that before? No, what would be your guess? And I'd put you on the spot. Probably on their phone. More often, exactly, distracted driving, yeah, yeah. So until they figure that out, I mean and everyone knows it you go to pull up to an intersection and look at what all the other people are doing. And at least half of them are looking at the phone driving down the interstate.
Speaker 1:I mean myself. I've sat through green lights Right. They're looking at emails. No, I don't do that. I'm kidding what You're telling me. You're a insurance agent?
Speaker 2:No, but yeah, you look at most accidents, you know, and like we had a terrible one in Gretna where a truck ran into the back of a car and killed the kids that were in the back of the car and they were parked. The car was parked at a stoplight and I said, yeah, I'm sure they're going to look into what happened, but there's no doubt what happened. Like no one just drives into the back of a car that's parked, unless you're looking at a phone, or I mean maybe you're messing with the radio. But I mean I just feel like at some point again, either through technology or government regulation or something, we'll look back, you know, 10 years from now, and be like remember when we all used to drive around looking at a phone, like how freaking crazy that was and how many more accidents there was, and, and so I again I think it'll some.
Speaker 2:It'll hopefully get fixed at some point, yeah.
Speaker 1:Let's get to some of the good questions, like what advice do you have for someone looking to get into the insurance agency world? Like you were saying, if somebody was going to possibly look for getting a job or getting into your world, what would you recommend?
Speaker 2:Yeah. So one thing about insurance is no one plans on usually going into insurance. There's no 15-year-olds usually who, unless maybe your dad is, but most 15-year-olds are like you know, what I want to do someday is insurance and so, and actually like I think the university of Iowa has a program for insurance that they've got kids coming through, but for the most part, yeah, most people end up there. That's how they kind of kind of kind of fall into kind of a a hidden gem. I think, if you will, because it's an awesome industry. I mean it's again, you're not, you're not dealing with. I mean you're dealing with some kind of some you know, kind of complicated legal things and contracts and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 2:So but the people who end up in insurance for the most part are, are great people, and I I tell folks who are kind of considering or thinking about it, whether it's whether you want to be in sales or not, because again, we kind of talked about there's that there's kind of an intrinsic kind of part to people that ends up making them good salespeople. And maybe you have that, maybe you don't. But there are other great jobs, great professional jobs that right out of school you can make good, solid money and learn a trade, and learn a trade. And the same thing I was saying on the sales side relates to people in any kind of job in an insurance, whether it's you're in account management or marketing or whatever it is, if you get good at that and you could walk into an agency and say here I've managed a book of you know, a $750,000 book of business for salespeople in this agency. Our agency, for sure, is going to be like you know when can you?
Speaker 2:start right, and that's the case everywhere. So so I think, but not a lot of people think of it and not a lot of people I mean even people who cause. Everyone has insurance, everyone purchases insurance, but most people, just like I was whatever 12 years ago, I didn't really understand it or know it, and so, but yeah, once you get in there and once you learn about how it works and why it's important in the world and and why people need it, then you know it ends up just being a great career and a great industry to work in.
Speaker 1:Yep, well, how do you maintain your work-life balance? Because I noticed that you have the same problem I have, in that you have your main gig and then you have all these other gigs, and it's like I do I have my full-time job that I'm supposed to be doing, and then I have my other job, that's maintaining everybody. That's kind of my full-time job too, but it's like which one comes first, right, and so how do you maintain that? What do you do? Cause I'm assuming you're like me, where you get calls all hours of the day, all weekend, off hours, kid, sports You're always getting tasked with stuff from either clients or employees or salespeople. How do you, what have you done over the years to maintain that?
Speaker 2:Yeah Well, I'd say, well, number one, I do not have as many gigs as you do. I didn't realize. Like you mentioned this podcast and I so. Then, of course, recently I looked up, just to kind of Googled Matt Murray podcast and I'm like you've done like 50 of these, like geez you're. I mean that's another full-time job, you're doing a podcast. I'm hoping you're making just boatloads of money on this.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, I doubt that. Yeah, we're still in that stage where we're like trying to build an audience. Right, right, well, I'm expecting a big commission out of this thing.
Speaker 2:So I've already put a down payment on a lake house. It's a matter of how many boat docks I'm putting on the thing. What do?
Speaker 1:you call it? What is that word? You call it when your employees start getting to the point where they cost Validating? Yeah, I'll let you know when you're validated.
Speaker 2:Right, right, yeah, I'm still in the hole as it is. Yeah, so work-life balance obviously is tough and indeed like having, like, say, two full-time jobs and you know, that's not unusual, I don't think for most people Right, and then you throw kids in there, and then you throw kids sports in there, and then your marriage and vacations and whatever it is, and so and again, this is the flexibility that you have in sales is that I've always prided myself again on. If there's something I need to be at or go to or whatever it is, whatever time of day, it is Like my son, my middle son or my middle child. He had new student enrollment at UNL on Tuesday, and then he screwed up and didn't sign up for that soon enough, so it was advising. He couldn't do his advising for his classes that day, so it was on Monday, and so I was down here in Lincoln I live in Omaha and Gretna and so but I was down here on Monday for the afternoon, and then I was down here on Tuesday for the full day and I wanted to be there, though that's the kind of thing that I would not miss for my kids if I could help it, and so I pride myself in not missing things that I need to do. That's awesome.
Speaker 2:But then, on the flip side, are you pulling out the laptop on Saturday? Are you what I used to? So when I talk to the newer producers on building a book of business, right, I'm like you should be all day during the day, as much as you can, in the office gathering information, seeing what we talk about, hearing what we talk about. You know you're learning through osmosis during the day, but you also need to find, dig out companies that you were going to approach or prospect. Right, and I'm like.
Speaker 2:So what I did when I was building my book is I would learn during the day, I would do whatever, but at night, after the family would go to bed, so put the kids to bed, wife falls asleep, I would pop up my laptop and I would work from like whatever 10 to midnight, and I do that three or four nights a week and so. So, yeah, I'm giving away some time during the day from work to do, to do family stuff or whatever it is, but if you're going to do this job right, you're working more than 40 hours a week You're putting in the time that you need to. I'm sure you've dealt with this of people who like that flexibility lifestyle and eventually abuse that flexibility lifestyle and they can't figure out why they're not getting ahead and it's like, how many hours did you work last week? But it's always our fault.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:Right, and you told me it was going to work. I'd have you said I could golf during work and it's like, yeah, man, but not three days a week, Like that's you know, and golf can be used for for business for sure. But you and your three jackass buddies go and play in Tiburon on on Tuesday afternoon.
Speaker 2:That's not that's not helping anybody, you know, and so you've got to kind of figure that out. So that's kind of what I've done is it's like I find the quiet times when my family doesn't need me and I'm a night owl anyway, so I can handle that anyway. So I'll work at night. But you've got to kind of find a way to fill in those gaps, because you can't live the flexibility lifestyle of kind of jet setting around and golfing and doing all this kind of stuff if you're not finding another time to put in that work that you absolutely have got to do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we get very few weekends off. This weekend is one of them. No kids, no sports, wow. So our date night, or our date day tomorrow, is me yesterday realizing I have actually an insurance audit for Marie Custom Homes general liability why you don't have to do those, what are you talking about? And a blueprint that I need to do. And so I texted Megan yesterday and it's weird that at this age, which most people from the outside looking in would think that I'm successful and don't work and it's just because I like what you're saying, just because I'm not in the office, you know, 18 hours a day doesn't mean I'm not working, for sure. But our date tomorrow is we're going to wake up, work out and then go work somewhere, right, and so our break from work is to just go work somewhere else. So we'll go to like venue and sit in the back or big red, you know, and sit there and just to have some iced tea and work till we get our shit done.
Speaker 2:But that's our idea. God, that is just romantic. Just the thought of you sitting at a venue holding hands under the table while you do a general liability.
Speaker 1:But it's so hard to do when, like you, your phone rings every five minutes, if not more, and I have a million things going on. And then it's summer, so you're dealing with the kids kids, sports during the day, kids at home. It's so hard to do certain things like audits, where you're getting into QuickBooks, pulling reports, making sure you know what I mean, stuff where it needs your full, undivided attention. So it's like it's a relief to know that you're going to dedicate a day where your phone's not going to be ringing, your kids aren't going to be screaming, and just to be able to do it, and it just gives you a lot of relief knowing that. Okay, okay, I can put that aside for now. I don't need to worry about it during the workday and we can just do it this weekend. And so she has a lot of that busy work too, where she's client-facing and she has people waiting on her.
Speaker 2:So think she actually likes it when I'm like hey, tomorrow we're just going to work, yeah. It sucks to say, but it's like yeah, but it'll feel good. It'll feel so good when you're done with it. It does.
Speaker 1:God, it's the old mental checklist has a few less, it makes Monday a little rough. Yeah, when you get to like Tuesday, you think it should be like Thursday or Friday, because you didn't have that, you know.
Speaker 2:But yeah, well, you need to. It's like if you've got three hours blocked in your day tomorrow for working. It's like after two and a half hours, that's when you pull this little bottle of tequila, start sipping on it, and then you kind of roll right into the evening and find a way to make it a, make it a weekend. One way or another.
Speaker 1:So we did a. It was kind of going off topic, but when I was going through some health issues and my dad was going through his health issues, he needed our attendance. A lot like unexpectedly Friday eight o'clock, we'd be out with the company and he needs us there. So it just worked out perfectly. That was a good time to detox. I've done every year for about eight years, 10 years. I've done like a one month detox just for the fun of it, usually at the end of summer, like when you've ran your body ragged lots of sun, lots of water, sports, drinking all day. I do a one month detox and when my dad got sick and when they thought I was, they thought I had MS. It was just ended up, yeah.
Speaker 2:I remember that.
Speaker 1:But anyways, I did. My chiropractor took me aside and said I want to ask you something. I'm like what's that? And he's like I want to ask you something. I'm like what's that? And he's like I want to ask a favor of you and it's will you stop drinking? For two months. And I was like, yeah, no problem, I just needed you to ask, no problem. So I called Megan. I'm like I'm going to do a detox. She's like I'm going to do it with you.
Speaker 1:And so we went 13 months no alcohol at all. And then that ended on my dad's celebration of life. We popped some champagne with family and then I started drinking beer again, but no liquor. And so we went a year almost just beer, no liquor. And then three, about three and a half months ago, march Madness Sunday, I decided that I was going to do another detox just for the fun of it. Again, we were just drinking for March Madness for like two or three days straight. I was like God, it's not really giving me a buzz or anything and I'm getting hungover, and so just detox. So we're like three and a half months in other than just sipping this tequila.
Speaker 1:But yeah, it makes it a little bit harder to go to restaurants. People are starting to catch on with the NA and like these Junies that I drink and we drink hop water and all this other kind of fun stuff that they've came out with. But it's less appealing for us now to want to go to like Big Red or venue, because you know you'd use like what you said we usually just sit there and drink a beer and watch TV and work and you'd sit there for five or six hours and it really didn't feel like you were working but you feel so accomplished. But now when you're not drinking it's a little hard because a lot of places you just have iced tea or some of them will have an NA but they don't have, you know, like NA, seltzers and stuff like that.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's just weird, because I have that OCD tendency of always having to have something in my hand, and so I think that's why I need to detox. You know, if I'm drinking a beer, I always got to be drinking that beer, yeah, which is a bad habit.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so yeah, no, I'm, I could stand to use some detox. I think we all could. Yeah, I mean, I'm fully toxed. I feel like right now I could use the detox. But but yeah, I mean it's funny how, and not funny, it's whatever it is. It's like, as an adult, how integrated alcohol is with social socializing.
Speaker 2:My son he got big into golf or he got into golf. I got him into golf about four years ago. I knew he was, I knew he needed something and kind of pushed him toward golf and he ended up loving it, taking off on it. I played on the high school golf team and we went out golfing one night. I think it was like cause for a while. We live right by Tiburon golf course in Omaha and I we would go on Saturday or Sunday night when kind of after tea times are over. Go there, just go up to the desk, be like, hey, can we get a quick nine in, right, and it's, you know, saturday evening. So we go and get the car. I'm like I'm going to go run in and get a drink and I go in and get a drink. What do you want? He wanted whatever. So I come out and put it in. He's like what are you drinking? And I'm like laughed. He's like you're drinking when you're golfing and I just thought it was so funny because it's alcohol and golf it's so intertwined.
Speaker 1:I didn't know. You golfed without drinking Right Exactly.
Speaker 2:It's like one of my favorite lines from the Simpsons. He's like fishing without drinking. That's like hunting without drinking. But yeah, alcohol is so integrated and I I'm like that is such a funny perspective that he thought it was weird that there was going to be that I was going to have alcohol on the golf course.
Speaker 1:You know, what's crazy is you could speak all day about this, going through that like 13 months, and then now doing it again. It is crazy how much society is focused around alcohol and even music. Like, if you listen to music, I put a Facebook post up about this like a year or two ago. It's like I had turned on my kids had turned on a station that I never usually listened to and it was going between country and modern and Taylor Swift, and it was like every song was the plot was about something different. So it was either about, like, heartbreak or love or celebration, but the one commonality was it was all about drinking. So it was like, if you have your heartbreak, drink right, right, oh, you're in love for having a drink. If you're partying, go drink. It was all every song had about alcohol. It was all over you.
Speaker 1:I was like no wonder why it's ingrained in your subconscious like that. Like, if you're hanging out with friends, have a beer. If you're going golfing, have a beer. If you're sad, go out and have a beer with friends. You know, if you want anything and everything, subconsciously you're just always thinking, and so it is tough. It is tough for that first month when you're detoxing and you're going out with your friends and you're going out with the company and stuff. It's so hard to going out with your friends and you're going out with the company and stuff. It's so hard to to not only reprogram yourself but to have to explain it over and over and over. It's exhausting. Yeah, because it is. It's just so normal that you just have a beer.
Speaker 2:Well, it's normal to the point that if you're out with that group, someone's going to be like what the hell Matt Like? Why are you not Everybody.
Speaker 1:Why are you not pounding beers, man? And you know what else is weird about it is nobody can just accept the fact that you're just doing the detox and we just got hounded by some baseball parents the other day Like what's the real reason? It's like we're literally just doing a detox. Like for what? Are you trying to lose weight? It's like I mean sure, if that's a consequence of not drinking, yeah, but literally just challenging myself to do a fucking detox, I don't know why. Do I need a reason? Right, you know everybody's like oh, why you got? Do you have an alcohol problem? Do you have? Does Megan not want you to drink? It's like, dude, I can just not want to drink. To not want to drink, yeah, it gets frustrating. Yeah, the radar goes up. It it does. But I get it too. I would react the same way. It's like wait, you didn't just decide out of nowhere to stop drinking, like something had to have happened. But no, no.
Speaker 1:No, well, that's good for you, great for you. Yeah, it gets easier with time. I don't doubt that. I have no clue how long I'm going to go. Well, actually I'm drinking tequila right now. Yeah, it literally ended. Five minutes fun we were going to drink. And so last weekend, when I knew that we were going to do that, tom, we had baseball parents over to the house and Tom was there and he's like do you care if I whip out one of your tequilas? And I was like, no, we used to do fun Fridays, like every other Friday, and we'd go remote and just kind of bounce around and just with all the new hires and the COVID and all that stuff, we kind of lost traction and we're just trying to get back to doing that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, having fun on Fridays yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's just fun to sit, have a beer, talk, talk. But we have, I told you about it, you're coming. Brandy booked Tom for his, so his birthday is Tuesday and his god, what was it? His 16th anniversary. Shannon, with our company, was on last week, and so, rather than just getting him like the normal card and just oh, thank you, we were like let's do something special. Tom's all about the moments. He doesn't care about the gifts, he's about the moments. So we're like let's do something special for him. And so she booked the group therapy bike ride downtown for today, from two to four. So I'm excited that you're going to come so that way we can sit around and talk some more.
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, that'll be an instant detox.
Speaker 1:I feel like you do it, I suppose. Oh yeah, alcohol is a part of it. Yeah, why would we do that? I just imagine being out out in the heat peddling anything. It just made me start sweating right now. So you know how they have the different options. Like you have one that everybody pedals and contributes, and then they have the other one that has, like, I think, a person peddling.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, but you can't, but you're peddling, but it's really going nowhere, right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's why everybody's been complaining about the needed work. That and I'm like guys, we don't have a destination in mind, like, even if we don't move, we're doing what we wanted to do. Tom just wants everybody together having a good time talking, so but yeah, with that I've been. I really appreciate it. Thanks for taking time out of your day. We'll continue this on the bike trolley downtown. Shout out to group therapy. Hopefully you have fun. I've never done it before.
Speaker 2:So no, me, neither, Me, neither.
Speaker 1:It would be.
Speaker 2:It would be new for me as well. Awesome, but I appreciate you having me on.
Speaker 1:This was a blast, I mean you're a great person, great business owner and excited to hear how we sound. Yeah, absolutely Everybody. Thank you for joining us on this episode of stay modern with Murray. Whether you're an inspiring business owner, a nonprofit leader or just someone looking to make a difference, stay modern, stay inspired and keep pushing the boundaries of what's possible. Until next time. This is Matt Murray with Stay Modern with Murray. Thank you.
