Stay Modern With Murray
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Stay Modern With Murray
Transforming Wellness Through Music and NeuroArts Innovation
This episode unveils the transformative power of music therapy in enhancing mental health and well-being through the story of Todd Kunze and his work at Innerwave. We discuss the innovative intersection of art and science in NeuroArts, the personalized approach to music therapy, and the promising future of healthcare interventions driven by music.
• Todd Kunze shares his journey from facilitating charitable events to leading Innerwave
• Overview of NeuroArts and its integration of science, technology, and music
• The significance of music therapy in memory care and mental health treatment
• Real-life stories demonstrating the impact of familiar music on patients’ memories
• Discussion on the importance of personal music preferences in therapeutic settings
• Future plans for Innerwave and the role of technology in music therapy interventions
• Todd's advice for aspiring creatives and the need for digital detox to spark creativity
Hey everybody, thank you for joining us on this episode of Stay Modern with Murray Today. I'm your host, Matthew Taylor, and we are in the Murray studio speaking with Todd Koons, Interwave president and CEO. You're going to want to sit back, relax and take this one in, because it could change your life, Todd. Thank you for joining us, man.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I appreciate it. Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, brother, absolutely. Hey, first and foremost man, before we kind of get into the ins and outs of what you do, can you tell us a little bit about who you are, where you're from and how you got to where you are today?
Speaker 2:Yeah, well, you know it's interesting, this journey, right. And so this started back in the early 90s. I mediated between national recording artists and their charities of choice. And you know, a national recording artist wanted to do a philanthropic or charitable project. We did a forum and they loved it because they didn't have to touch anything and we would. You know, we would set it up and come and they would show up and you know whether it was a food drop or St Jude's Children's Research Hospital. I did a lot of projects with them and a lot of a lot of different, you know, radio and festivals. So I got kind of started in all of that in the country.
Speaker 2:Music festivals, music festivals, right, and so that all kind of transpired and did that for five or six years. We did projects from the size of a lemonade stand up to the daytona 500 and uh, what's live nation today used to be back in the day, it was pace entertainment. Then it was, uh, sfx. Robert silverman bought that and became sfx and then clear channel communications bought that and and it just it just kept going right. So four years of corporate changes every year there was a corporate change in the music industry and uh, we, I survived all of that. It was at a the charlotte uh blockbuster pavilion at the time, uh, when that was happening around 2000, and then went to Birmingham and opened an amphitheater there. And so between all of that journey, right of doing music festivals for that, and the amphitheater, charlotte, birmingham and the nonprofit, I've done about 700 events. Oh, wow, and they all had something to do, we all.
Speaker 2:My wife asked me one time what do I tell people you do? And I said, well, just tell them I'm a charitable instigator, right, so, so, so we, we really anytime we had conversations with artists, artist management, people in the you know industry or whatever labels, publicists, festival. It had to have something philanthropic with it. Right, we do something. And just over the years it just kind of, you know, progressed to uh after covid, right, and all of us have, everyone has a covid story of what changed or directed your lives, your business, whatever it is that you do.
Speaker 2:And uh, we were uh ready to uh, you know, I went back to college and we're almost got away from all of this. And and uh, we uh were in discussions with a friend of mine in nashville. I said, well, let's, let's get the band back together, kind of if you will like, kind of start doing this again. And we had the letters, documents, everything was ready to go. I sent it off at 1030 in the morning, march 13th this would have been what 2019?. And that went right in the trash can Because 30 minutes later, everything shut down and everybody's lives were changed because of it.
Speaker 2:A lot of doors had to be closed in Nashville and the music industry in Los Angeles and New York because of it. A lot of doors had to be closed in Nashville and the music industry in Los Angeles and New York because of it. And so, as we redirected and the reason I'm sharing all of this is because of technologies that were available that came out of COVID and streaming platforms and all kinds of interesting ideas that were trying to come out of this post-COVID scenario we really wouldn't exist if it wasn't for COVID. We just kept exploring and exploring ideas and opportunities available with the technologies around and kind of what we do now. So we're sorry for the really long answer here, but it kind of sets up you know how we got to this point and along that journey we've been able to establish just an incredible team and an incredible board list of board of advisors of what we do in that space. You want me to share with you real quick what, what we, the space that we operate in. I'd love that.
Speaker 1:I'd love that for our listeners too the space that we operate in.
Speaker 2:I'd love that. I'd love that for our listeners too. Yeah, so there's a new medical field that Johns Hopkins University created along with the Aspen Institute called the NeuroArts, and NeuroArts was formed basically, I think now it's hitting three years ago, this initiative, and I mean you can look it up online, and NeuroArts Blueprint is what it's hitting. Three years ago, this initiative, and I mean you can look it up online. The NeuroArts Blueprint is what it's called, but it's the convergence of science and technology and research and the arts and all the arts dance, music, expression. It just takes and encompasses everything in a wellness platform, and so I had already started working on what Interwave has become today. I already started working on it before I knew what NeuroArts was or what it meant, or they even coined that.
Speaker 2:I'd been doing this for a while, and so I had some really great conversations with Dr Susan Magsman on video conference and what we were trying to do, and so we really formulated everything we do kind of functions around new technologies, new neuro arts interventions like music therapy interventions, art therapy interventions, virtual reality therapy interventions and we've come up with a patent pending process that combines multiple therapy interventions into one modality, and so I wouldn't be able to, just just because of the patent, I wouldn't be able to dive into all of it. But but it's really interesting how well received this has been the conversations that I've had, and and so we're we're really excited about, you know, some of the technologies that we're creating, what we're working on to improve music therapy intervention outcomes and combine some new technology. So that's the.
Speaker 1:That's the short version Well, music therapy intervention. I mean kind of break that down, if you would. I mean let's, let's, I'm going to play dumb here, right, act like I have no idea what you're talking about? Tell me a little bit more about music therapy.
Speaker 2:Well, right now we've we've partnered with uh, this will be a little bit of a long answer, but we, to set that up, we we've partnered with um, the Institute for Music and Neurologic Function in New York, and Dr Conchetta Tameno. She was like only the second music therapist in the world and she, if you remember the movie Awakenings oh boy, do I, yes, sir, yeah, robin Williams, robin Williams movie and that movie was about Dr Oliver Sacks and she founded the Institute in New York with Oliver Sacks in New York and what's exciting about that? She's on our board of advisors and the institute that they have at Wartburg there in New York and Mount Vernon is incredible. But she's been a really great sounding board for those music therapy interventions and mostly elder care, right, with memory care residents there and her work with the elderly and elder care. But music therapy in itself traditionally over the years has been, you know, playing music for someone or having music. Music and memory is also merged with the Institute there in New York and they have soundtracks that are created for, you know, their elderly residents and access to people you know that want to build a soundtrack for their loved one if they're a caregiver. Here's the interesting thing about music therapy interventions now is they create soundtracks for music that someone loved, right? So your elderly parent has a memory or Alzheimer's issues or a memory care issue, you can play their favorite songs on the song list and they know all the words to the songs, but they might not know their daughter sitting in front of them, right, right. And so what happens is this exercise helps them to have some sort of sense of something to look forward to or something to hopefully can create some neuroplasticity neuropath new neuropathways could be possibly created in the space.
Speaker 2:In the space, and uh, they're also, uh, we participated in this music therapy. Uh, it was a music circle, right. So we had an artist friend of ours, uh, artist, he's our business partner and on our website, board member. But, uh, greg barnhill, uh wrote trisha yearwood's breakout hit walk away, joe, and has won multiple emmy awards and is a grammy nominated guy, a great person to work with.
Speaker 2:Well, we stopped in and we played for these residents, these at the mental uh facility there uh, for memory care facility, sorry. And there was a accordion, a piano player uh, I had a djembe drum, uh, that mickey hart from the Grateful Dead donated, so I got to play Mickey Hart's drum and we had, you know, a couple of other people there in the circle and they brought in a couple of residents and we played and he was basically almost catatonic in the beginning but we played John Denver Country Roads. He woke up and knew all the words to the song oh my gosh, and he was clapping and everything and then when he'd stop and then he would kind of revert back and so this is not a common story where elder care patients and memory care patients can sing the words like happy birthday or songs from the 40s or the 50s, but they don't remember lots of connected things next to them, meaning the family members and events. So our hope is in this music therapy intervention is that we've created and some technologies that we've added, that we can take new music delivery technologies and combine them from a listening standpoint and have these residents and people listen to this new soundtrack. Originally. We've recorded two proof of concepts in the recording studio in Nashville and they're original content pieces and they've been overwhelmingly well-received by the people that we've played them to and the meeting neurologists, people you know, doctors and people that are in the space and so like there's music therapy as a whole is such a great, it needs to be tapped in so much more because of the therapeutic benefits of music and sound.
Speaker 2:Resonance, uh, um, sulfagea scale, uh, ohm, right, resonant frequency ohms like you can own that you know, four, 32 or or anything like that that can calm, calm, uh, your, you know, calm someone down or or or be there. So anyway, all we're exploring these new music therapy intervention technologies in sound, how the sound is delivered, how the people hear it, that will help break through and help create, hopefully, some of these new, you know, neuropathways. Also, pain management, right, pain management, anxiety disorders, ptsd, all of those. So this applies to all of that as a whole. So that's a long answer. But music, music therapy interventions with with, you know, musicians and playing and comforting someone and helping create a sense of not just balance but of calm and healing, uh, there's other you know properties to it. It probably take another two hours to dive too deep, I mean.
Speaker 1:I think, honestly, honestly, todd, I think this could change a lot. I mean you, you've seen the benefits. You've seen, you've seen it on your end. I mean for our audience here in the Nebraska, omaha, our area. I think this is huge. I've always said music, music can can make or break my day. If I'm riding into work and I'm listening to something, let's say, that wants to get me pumped up, that will take me throughout noon, at least you know, if not through the afternoon, and I will carry that same attitude throughout the day. And I mean I coach a lot of baseball, right, and it's the same concept with our pregame, with our postgame. I mean music changes the way that you feel, it changes the way that you act. It changes even the simple task of walking right. If I'm going for a walk and I'm listening to something soothing, that's going to calm me down. I can't imagine the way that it's changing people's lives on your end of the spectrum too, man. That's incredible.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think this is worth sharing, based on what you shared, and I shared this on the stage. We were part of the Music has Power Awards and Symposium in New York City in Times Square in November and Greg Barnhill, our creative officer, chief creative officer, received an award there. And then I was on a panel on the stage and and I shared this in New York and, uh, it was, you know, good timing. It was pretty spontaneous, but you know, I had, uh, a year and a half ago, a little over a year and a half ago, had knew something was going on. Uh went and had some, uh, had some.
Speaker 2:Uh they weren't physical tests, they were tests that you fill out, you answer these forms and questions and questionnaires. There was a stack of them. There was like 10 of them. I went to see this clinical psychologist and we filled all these out. I had a PTSD score of 85. Oh, wow, it's super. The way I understand it, it's super clinical. I think the military categorizes their PTSD score clinical at 40. And so it gives you an idea of how above the scoring spectrum I was at at the time. So we went through and I started using some of these music therapy interventions that I'm working with right now and some of the other programs that we we discussed over the year and I took maybe a couple of three months ago. I took this test again and my score was below 30. Oh my goodness, and so you cut it in half.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and so if you look at anxiety disorder and PTSD, as far as music therapy interventions, We've been using the same technique in music therapy basically since it started, you know, in the 70s, late 60s, early 70s, and what we've come up with and I wish I could dive into it a little bit more, but we're still scientifically kind of covered up by doing that. I could dive into a little bit more, but we're still scientifically kind of covered up by doing that. But look, we've come up with a way to deliver this that bypasses the way the brain hears the music and it's processed and goes in and we can put an EEG cap or EEG headphones on a participant that's in a session and run them through that. And here's a great example I can tell you Akimoto and his team, in 2018 did a study. These Japanese colleagues did a study on the autonomic nervous system and the hertz frequency 528, 528 hertz the autonomic nervous system and the Hertz frequency 528, 528 Hertz and they put the study with these PTSD patients and their autonomic nervous system and the PTSD patients in these sessions returned to baseline in five minutes. In five minutes Incredible. So we've taken that and incorporated into some of the work that we're doing initially, and you have the PTSD anxiety disorder patients, which you can get real-time results from with the EEG, with the blood pressure. You know just common things right from the stats and get their SAT rates and everything together and gain just as much information from that as you can.
Speaker 2:You know the EEG responses that are coming out, but we can pinpoint at four minutes and 32 seconds, point two, when they started to respond to the soundtrack they're listening to and what happened when.
Speaker 2:You know what happened when that changed and why did it change, and then we can continue to adjust. You know accordingly, just depending on, you know what we're looking at and studying it. So, look, I I think that the applications of music within itself, as you mentioned, are significant. The the changes that are being made in the conversations we're having. We just our hope is to leave a footprint behind where we change the positive outcomes and increase the effectiveness of what we're doing is our goal, that's, I mean our whole goal is to increase the effectiveness of these therapy interventions or this art therapy and music therapy and combinations of all of these things and the new immersive technologies that are available to us. We just want to leave the footprint behind, so it keeps going. So we've changed the outcomes for these people, the applications in different medical genres. Anyway, that's the long answer on kind of where I see and where this music therapy and art therapy, neural arts interventions are headed.
Speaker 1:Now, have you seen on along those lines? Have you seen a, a higher, a higher outreach or a higher income, a higher positive benefit from certain genres of music? I mean, is it like Frank Sinatra? I mean, what are we talking here as a music?
Speaker 2:I mean, is it like Frank Sinatra. I mean, what are we talking here? Well, it's the first one in the elder, care is personal preference. I mean songs they're familiar with. But the research studies have shown that familiarity with those patients is beneficial. They lighten up, they know the words to it. And so to answer your question, is there's been research studies done a pretty good stack of them that there's different classical music pieces that are beneficial. There's certain chants, Gregarian chants I think the study that was on there was number one. Believe it or not, the gregarious chance of that is the number one response. But people are different.
Speaker 2:You have to be careful when you administer music therapy that it's not too loud, too low end frequency, too high end frequency. It doesn't create a problem. You don't want to create a problem in your music therapy session. Uh, you know with that. So, um, we've approached it in a. I guess I would call it a genre neutral. It's almost a new genre of of sound and music and application, that that that bypass it, but yet we still need to use what somebody said.
Speaker 2:This is a real quick, funny story about not knowing what really. You don't know what music people are interested in. You may even know them, but you don't know what they like. I had a guy in Charlotte at the amphitheater in Charlotte and he was every time I ever saw him. He was in a suit and he was in the 12th Tower at Bank of America in a suit and he was in the 12th tower at bank of america in charlotte and he came out to a show one night and, uh, it was a metal show and he came around the corner and he's wearing black jeans and a black t-shirt and and and he's got a stack of cups already gone and this guy was it was a heavy metal guy, right, and and and he loved that and so just from appearance you would never know.
Speaker 2:And I've heard stories of people who they would listen to. You know a heavier metal, you know like Metallica or something like that, or maybe even kind of like at Lincoln Park or something like that, and they received a calming effect from that versus the. You know something that you would, you and I would think would be. You know some sort of calming classical music piece where you're sitting and relaxing. That didn't work for them, but I know some people that can relax and get into a zone listening to metal. Yeah, it's rare, it's rare but it's certainly. I've met them.
Speaker 2:And I've met people that say you know, I know I wind down, you know, you know listening to that and I I couldn't do that. No, but some people are just wired that way and that's the great thing about the process of where we are in the arts right, and we're only our conversations on the scratch in the service of immersive visual experiences like the sphere in Las Vegas, that can be applied to this process and in arts and arts and dance in general. So we're really in a really big ocean of opportunity here to improve, you know, outcomes in these processes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, along those lines, lincoln park, I mean. Just side note. I saw him up here in Omaha and it was one of the best shows I've ever seen and it was before Chester passed away. Chester Bennington, the lead singer, and I tell you what man they you want to talk about immersive they. It was everything from the DJ to the drummer to the guitarist. I mean everybody had their shining moment. And one of the best shows I've ever been to hands down bar none.
Speaker 1:And I'm a pop guy Like you would never know by looking at my photos or anything, but I'm a huge Backstreet Boy fan and here's why, before anybody starts judging me, I've met all five of them. I've met their wives, I've talked to the kids of the Backstreet Boy and they're just down to earth people and I've always said, from from when people start giving me crap about it and everything, I'm like good music is good music and I don't care who it is, what genre it is, if it, if it's telling a story and I can get behind that story and I can relate it to something in my personal life. That's a song, that that's a banger, that's something that's going to go on for decades and decades and decades, and so yeah, it's, it's they.
Speaker 2:They did have an incredible uh overall production show. It is amazing and and I think that you know this diversity, you know and share with you a little bit of diverse uh angles of music on our board uh on our, on our website uh, interwavesorg. There's a on our board of advisors, andre below, and andre is a violinist, a almost a savant violinist, been playing the violin since he was four. Um, he's uh an amazing I'll tell you where he is at from a concert violinist standpoint is he has a 1728 Stradivarius violin as a $16 million violin.
Speaker 2:Holy cow, oh my gosh. And he's as equally talented in the visual art. This is how I met him some years ago was because of his art. It wasn't because of his incredible violin play and the band he's in, a band that travels across the country selling out shows, which is called Paris Chanson and they play French and Russian music and traditional music and it's phenomenal. I mean, they sell out the city winery venues across the country and Herb Albert's club in Los Angeles.
Speaker 2:But he has been gracious enough to be on our advisory board and helping us. We're working on a project on his right now for this music intervention and visual art space therapy process. And so here's the guy, here's a concert violinist, you know, that we're going to, we're pairing with, like a country music producer, you know, and some other. You know, it's kind of a grab bag of all of the people that are on our advisory board or people that we're communicating with, especially in the medical field. They're all musicians and I don't even ask, I just they just oh, I play the violin or I play the guitar, you know. And Dr Joseph Ledoux that's on our board of advisors is an incredible guitar player and has put out some really cool pieces, and, and so you know it's just a grab bag of, of people who you want to contribute in the space. That are, you know, scientists and research people map it to you. They all seem to play an instrument or have some sort of connection in the music world yeah, no.
Speaker 1:So along those same lines how where's somebody that you've worked with that that you know maybe would surprise us here and our listening audience somebody that you've worked with or that's on your advisory board that we might know?
Speaker 2:current right, you know, like the, everything I did with the music industry, artists from an event perspective, was prior to technology. You know the technology that we have today, which just means I'm old. But, uh, you know there's some artists out there and you know we can attest to was, uh, I do have a nebraska connection. I was with shannon chestnut at york, nebraska. We launched a radio station there with the nebraska world radio association, uh, the max country, and, and we launched that and I was there at the time and and uh, it's, it's pretty, uh, exciting to be kind of being able to at least talk about it, hear the music of people that I worked with through the nineties and I think, uh, one of the best, uh, uh, you know, entertainer of the year back in in the day in the late uh, eighties, whatever, it was Ricky Van Shelton, okay, yes, yeah, ricky Van, we did some really cool things together at NASCAR events and we launched the NASCAR Monopoly board game together and I took him there and we did that and that was a non-profit ball. You know it was an event and you know, just back in the day, know the day of, you know, artists you know that were either in the middle of what they were doing that were willing to help or wanted to do stuff with us.
Speaker 2:I don't know if you remember an artist named kevin sharp. Kevin sharp uh, recorded measure of a man. He won the bmi as cap award, I think, for two million plays that year. It was in the nineties and he was the first artist to reach he was the first make a wish recipient to reach celebrity status. Wow, and, and he uh, his album measure of a man was real excited and his story about his maker wish. His wish was David Foster and he, he, uh, his wish was he wanted to meet david foster. I think he was 16 at the time. So, hopefully getting the story right and uh, anyway, he met him and everything, and he gave him a tape and david wouldn't listen to it. He goes I'm not going to do that to myself or you it's a pleasure meeting you, but I'm not, I'm not going to listen to this just because of the emotional issue that you're dealing with was being he had a bone type of cancer and I don't remember the name of it, but at any rate, uh, the story goes. I believe david was on his way home and popped the cassette in the car and turned around and went back and got it and he goes no, wait, wait, wait. And so he signed into his deal and so he made it many, many years through that. He's been gone sometime now Kevin has, but he I did a lot of his nonprofit work with his manager at the time and we did some stuff with St Jude's, a lot of stuff with St Jude's, and it was very rewarding to be able to do that and to help him, you know, get his message out to what was happening and to you know further our relationship that we had at the time with St Jude's Children's Research Hospital and the country cares program that they did.
Speaker 2:So there's a ton of know other artists and people you know that I could share, but it was always more about what we were doing or the food drop. You know, at the time there's a americana country artist named kathy matea. A lot of people might remember kathy, uh and uh. I got her to sing the national anthem at the Daytona 500 when Earnhardt won oh my gosh. And so it was very cool on a couple of different fronts, but obviously Dale went in the 500 that year, but it being the I'm looking at this plaque here. It was the 40th anniversary of the Daytona 500 and the 50th anniversary of NASCAR, and it was, you know, february 15th 1998.
Speaker 2:And so we got to, you know, spent some time visiting with Dale and his shop there in North Carolina, and so that was just those experiences that helped guide me into helping get ready to, you know, set up this conversations we're having now with artists and recording artists and the music producer that I have, gajon.
Speaker 2:By the way, greg Barnhill and Darren Gajon are from New Orleans, they're from Louisiana, and Darren, our technology officer, is incredible. We've created some tech that we're working on right now that we're presenting, and we've created some tech that we're working on right now that we're presenting. It's just remarkable, after 40 years in this space, that we can take something that's already been purposed for something else, take it and use it for what we need it for. And he's just been an amazing, amazing part of our team. Anytime we talk and we get together, all three of us, it's just something great happens and it's just just very rare to be able to, you know, put a team together like that or drink organically and uh, so we're, I'm super excited to be a part of of uh this with them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think anything's possible, man, especially when you surround yourself with, uh, the right people. You know, I've always said I'm only as good as the person sitting next to me, so that's hat off to you and your team and everything that you guys are accomplishing there too. So kind of walk us through what the process is for Interwave. If somebody wants to get involved, somebody needs to use your guys' services. How would they contact you? How would they go about it?
Speaker 2:Yeah, if they go to the website interwaveorg, there's a, there's a form there they can reach out and we'll get the message and we can, we can reach back out, back out to them. That's the best way to do it. And uh, uh, you know, I think that, uh, you know, hearing from any, uh, music therapists, art therapist, neurologist, any counseling people that are involved in treating PTSD, people who are working with memory care patients, cancer patients, you got to sit in a. Some patients have to sit in a chemo chair for six, seven, eight hours and we feel like sort of process that we have with, you know, pain management and the projects we're working on now will here, soon, eventually be able to be utilized there. So if you're in that space, right, and there's something that you want to reach out to us, that's the best way to do it.
Speaker 1:Perfect, we'll link that down before when we publish this. We'll put it in the comment section there too, so people can can go to your guys' site directly and try to get ahold of you guys that way. I only got a couple more for you here, todd, and then we'll get you out of here. Man Can't thank you enough. Um, next steps for interwave in neuroscience, the clinical music therapy field. Uh, what? What's next for you guys in your group?
Speaker 2:well we're. We're excited to announce that we've recently partnered with the institute for music and neurologic function in new york. We're officially partnered with them and they also have partnered, after the first year, with a music and memory. Music and memory has got that you know database of of songs that they provide for caregivers that creates these soundtracks for these elderly care patients, and you can look them up, certainly at the Institute for Music and Neurologic Function, or IMMF for short. That's real exciting. That relationship and partnership with what we're doing with them helps guide us in ways we couldn't possibly imagine because of the contacts that Dr Conchette has been gracious enough to share with us in the conversations that we're having.
Speaker 2:We do have some upcoming meetings in California with, uh, some technology companies, um, that are happening in February and, uh, some studio work that we have to do yet and, uh, so, uh, I think, at the stage of where we are, especially with everything being so technology driven, it'd be great to be able to just, you know, share here's, here's all of it, here's how it works. But we're not quite there yet. We want to be able to get this part, this phase of it, done and then move on. But we're real excited about the meetings that are going to take place in February. The studio work that we're doing right now and the storyboards that we're working on for this patent-pending immersive therapy intervention process that we've created is moving forward.
Speaker 2:We have a couple of philanthropic families, investor teams, interested in supporting what we're doing, and so, um, look, we're in the next three to four months, uh, we'll, we'll look to change gears and and and move forward and, you know, taking the proof of concept models we already have and, uh, being able to actually start talking to companies, which we're doing now about how we can get this to the right organizations, in the right hands, to, to, to deliver, uh, you know, this processes that we've we've created, and one of the companies, um, that we're talking to can do that. I mean, it's just, it's just fascinating that we've been talking to them for over two years now and they're ready. So, um, yeah, but that's, you know, we're really tight window here of three months, and then our conversation will change drastically, probably by June.
Speaker 1:Well, once June rolls around and you guys get everything across the finish line, man, we'll get you back on and we'll dive deeper into that too. But, Todd, I got one more for you here, man, Knowing everything that you know. Now COVID's passed, you know we're talking to younger Todd. What's a piece of advice that you'd give yourself and any, any listeners that are looking to dive into this industry?
Speaker 2:You know it's. It's it's about if you, if you feel and feeling something and you're passionate about it, that you can, something, that you can make a difference with the footprint that you leave behind, you need to do it. Don't listen to people tell you you can't do it. Don't listen to academic that tells you you can't do it. This is the way you have to do it. There's no rules, you just.
Speaker 2:Hans Zimmer has this really cool video that he put out. That was part of the master class on how to produce music soundtracks. You can even Google it and listen to it. Right, hans Zimmer in this master class. And he's like look, there's some kid in the Bronx that can spit out what I'm doing and and create a soundtrack that's just beautiful and and it's it's. It's like, if there's a rule in the space, break it and you can't listen to the norms. You have to. And I'll have one other piece of advice.
Speaker 2:Everything is driven on technology. Young people and millennials, the people that are that use technology every day. Every five seconds is put it down, put the damn phone down, shut the computer off, get silent for a bit and listen to yourself, be creative. You're not going to be able to do that listening and looking at your phone, and you're not going to be able to do it looking at your at your phone, and you're not going to be able to do it looking at your uh computer. Shut it off every day. If you can disconnect for two, three, four hours, get just put it away. Those people, those messages you're getting and the you know whatever, they're still going to be there. You have to disconnect from the noise. Let your brain settle, let you listen to the voice of your own creativity. That's what I would tell you is. If you can accomplish that, you can accomplish great things. Because you're not going to be able to do it glued to your phone.
Speaker 1:Amen, brother, amen. I think there's a, there's a calming, soothing presence. When, you know, a lot of people get uncomfortable with pauses, a lot of people get uncomfortable with with silence, and I, you know, being a father of two and coaching 11, 11 kids, and it's just being able to just sit and breathe and think and process, that to me is huge, it's massive. It makes a difference in every single day. I mean, start the day that way, you know yeah, I.
Speaker 2:I just think it is hard for some people to disconnect because of all the fast, rapid transit speed that everything is happening in today. Instant technology, instant answers, instant, everything like creativity is. We're built to be creative people in whatever you're passionate about, and especially in this neuro arts and music, space and arts and wherever. But if you can disconnect and just let go for a little bit, our brains aren't designed to stop thinking. I'm not saying stop thinking, but stop the external noise and just let yourself be creative and hear the voice. In some a little bit corny way, let the universe speak to you about what you want to do, because the only way you're going to hear that answer is to be quiet. I agree, and if I would have known that 30 years ago. Well, that's just the way our journey goes. But anyway, I appreciate your time and appreciate the conversation.
Speaker 1:Yes, sir, yes sir. My advice is always, man, is say yes, say yes, Take the risk, go out, take the chances. You're never going to regret the chances that you take. You're going to regret saying no. And what if? What if is the biggest, biggest fear I have. I tell the kids I coach I'm 36 years old. And if I had somebody tried harder, what if I would have given my all? What if I would have said yes? What if I would have done that podcast with Todd? You know that type of stuff, that's, that's huge man. Well, anyways, guys, this is the fastest hour in podcast radio. Uh, thank you for joining us on this. Stay modern with Murray podcast. Todd, before you go, is there anything else you want to reach out? How do people get involved? Just go to the website and hit you up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's the best way. Just go to interwaveorg and then they can send us a note or a message and we'll get back to you as soon as we can. And just uh, again appreciate the time and and uh, we'll catch up with you again soon.
Speaker 1:Yeah, man, we'll talk to you in June. Uh, everybody, follow us on your favorite podcast platforms. Stay, uh, stay tuned for some exciting announcements coming soon.
